19 to 21…

No, that’s not how many years Jamie Moyer has pitched

Volume 7, #20, July 6, 2009

Good Company

There's an old saying... you're known by the company you keep. Which is only fitting, since the subject under consideration is old. So old that, when he was young, dirt was white. So old that the first opposing pitcher he went up against in the majors was Steve Carlton. So old that he was traded for Mitch Williams... early in Williams' career. So old that he knew the Wright Brothers... Harry and George, not Wilbur and Orville. So old that he has a baseball with Alexander Cartwright's autograph. So old that, as a good Pennsylvania Dutchman, he was should have been mentioned by Johann Guts Muth in the first-known rules of English base ball. That's right, he's Jamie Moyer, soon to be 46 years and eight months old.

And what is the company Moyer has been keeping recently? How about Iron Man McGinnity? Jack Quinn. Vic Willis. Bob Gibson. Al Spalding. Carl Hubbell. And next come Jack Morris and Red Faber. McGinnity, Willis, Gibson, Spalding, Hubbell and Faber are in the Hall of Fame. So what do they have to do with a pitcher whose fastball typically tops out at 82 MPH or so? Well, the first three HOFers mentioned have been passed by Moyer in the career win total column during the 2009 season. The next two, Hubbell and Spalding (sort of), were just tied by Moyer, tied at 253 wins. And Faber (who's tied with Morris) is next on the list, at 254.

At the start of the 2009 season, here's what the career wins list looked like for places 40 through 50...

40. Ted Lyons 260

41. Red Faber 254

      Jack Morris 254

43. Carl Hubbell 253

      Al Spalding 253*

45. Bob Gibson 251

46. Vic Willis 249

47. Jack Quinn 247

48. Joe McGinnity 246

      Jamie Moyer 246

50. Amos Rusie 245

      Dennis Martinez 245

      Jack Powell 245

(*Spalding actually won more than 300 games at the highest level of competition. It wasn't his fault, any more than it was Dick McBride's, that he was pitching at that level before there was a professional baseball league to pitch in.)

Upon starting the 2009 season with 246 wins, Moyer had already passed Rusie (another Hall of Famer), Martinez and Powell with his 16th and final win of the 2008 season, a year in which he was the top winner on a World Series champion. His first win of 2009 broke the tie with McGinnity, and he's since passed Quinn (probably his best historical comparison), Willis and Gibson. It is a testimony to the short-sightedness of 21st Century baseball writers that Moyers' passing of Hall of Famers McGinnity and Willis was unremarked upon. However, when he passed up Gibson and tied Hubbell, THAT occasioned some comments, most along the lines (if not in a direct statement -- although those were made as well), that Moyer is no Bob Gibson. And, you know something? He's not. In some ways, he's more remarkable than the former Cardinals' ace. That statement may not sit well on the banks of the Mississippi, but note, that's not to say Moyer is a better pitcher than Gibson, just that he is remarkable, and worthy of being mentioned in this august company (and here it isn't even August yet…he'll likely approach Lyons before the year is out). The truth is, if you peruse at some of their stats, it doesn't particularly look like Moyer and Gibson were playing the same game, even though their innings pitched totals are very close...

IP H BB K CG Sho ERA WHIP ERA+

Gibson 3884 3279 1336 3117 255 56 2.91 1.188 127

Moyer 3836 3984 1098 2299 31 9 4.22 1.325 105

Some of these are factors of the game having changed dramatically (primarily more hitting and more relief pitching) from the 60s and 70s to the 90s and 00s. Nonetheless, there's no point in denying that Gibson was overall a better pitcher than Moyer. There's also no denying the validity of these stats...

Yrs W G GS

Gibson 17 251 528 482

Moyer 23 253 653 600

Maybe the first, third and fourth stats explain the second in a large part, but, no matter how you slice it, Jamie Moyer has more wins than Bob Gibson, and he always will, and that's a testimony to his determination, his desire, and maybe his brains. Moyer has already pitched in significantly more games than Gibson (almost 25 percent more starts), and Gibson was a great pitcher who lasted in the majors until he was 39 years old. Longevity should be no small value in judging the worth of a major league pitcher.

This disparity between Moyer and the company he's keeping extends to most of the other Hall of Famers mentioned. Rusie (he was through at 30) started 427 games in 10 years. McGinnity, who lasted in the majors until he was 37 (although he pitched in the minors into his mid-50s... hmmm), 381 games in 10 years. Willis, 471 starts in 13 years, and his last year in the majors was at age 34. The fabulous Meal Ticket, after a late start, lasted until he was 40 -- 16 years and 431 starts. Hubbell didn't reach the majors until he was 25, but Moyer didn't establish himself as a major league pitcher until he was past 30, and he has lasted seven years longer than Hubbell.

Faber and Lyons are a little more similar, as is non Hall-of-Famer Quinn.

Yrs Age/Start Age/Finish GS

Faber 20 25 44 438

Lyons 21 23 45 484

Quinn 23 25 49 444

(Quinn’s last game was actually six days after his 50th birthday.)

It may be idiosyncratic, but it's worth noting anyway that the one pitcher who matches Moyer in longevity -- Quinn -- isn't in the Hall of Fame. For that matter, two other pitchers who lasted forever and won a lot of games, Tommy John (288) and Jim Kaat (283), are also in the outside looking in. Longevity is apparently not highly prized by the BBWAA.

All this is not to say that Jamie Moyer should be, or will be, elected to the Hall of Fame. (Or that Quinn, John or Kaat should be elected.) He has, in fact, only recently started pitching well this year (7-6, 5.72 ERA -- two runs higher than his ERA last year). However, when he's on, as he was in his last start against the Mets, he is still an effective major league pitcher, who can keep his hard-hitting team in games, at the age of 46 years and almost eight months. And, with another year to go on his contract, his ability to say, match Bob Feller's 266 wins (now there's a contrast) cannot be ruled out. Longevity is important, and it has vaulted a pitcher who was 34-54 on his 30th birthday into pretty good company.

-- John Shiffert